Exclusive interview with the man behind M&S's Plan A

Director Richard Gillies speaks out on lycra, carbon prices– and how to recession-proof ethical shopping.

“It all started with an Actimel bottle”I was throwing that tiny little thing into the recycling bin one morning as I drove to work – and I missed, so had to get out of the car, in the rain, and pick it up. Later I was at work signing off M&S’s electricity bill, and it suddenly dawned on me that I was putting much more effort into recycling a small plastic bottle than I was procuring a year’s supply of electricity! And it struck me – I wasn’t applying the same set of values at work as I was at home.

“M&S brought you Lycra, now anaerobic digestion”We introduced Lycra to the masses in the 80s, came up with machine-washable suits, sandwiches in little triangles... It was all about taking a risk. Similarly, a lot of the things we’re doing for Plan A [the company’s environmental transformation] aren’t proven – that’s what makes my role so exciting. It’s about going out and seeing how solutions can be applied from one part of our supply chain to another. For example you could be visiting a juice factory, so you ask where all the pulp goes – then you start looking at turning it into energy through anaerobic digestion, and then how you can do this with animal slurry on farms, too...

“The lingerie factory moved me”The highlight of last year was visiting one of our suppliers’ eco-factories in Sri Lanka – producing lingerie. Usually, these places have kilometre after kilometre of fluorescent strip lights, but this one was carefully designed to use natural lighting. It’s just so much more pleasant for human beings – not to mention the fact that it halves your energy bill.

“You have to risk failure”Plan A is a change plan – and if you read the management guides, the majority of them fail. We are asking people to step into the unknown. But the beauty of this subject matter is that people like it. We have a tremendous level of support amongst our staff, who ultimately are the ones that make it happen – whether it’s recycling hangers and switching off lights, or promoting organic clothing. And I’ve been hugely enthused by the commitment of a lot of our suppliers – waste contractors, hauliers, the farms and factories… even despite the current pressures of the trading environment and exchange rates. We’ve just about passed the tipping point: it really has become ‘business as usual’ for this organisation.

“We’ve got to make ethical shopping recession-proof”We’ve found that shoppers are still happy to make ethical choices, but more are falling into the ‘only if you make it easy for me’ category. There’s a slight softening of the ‘I'm prepared to pay loads to be green’ category. So, while products with a price premium, such as fair trade and organic, are an important part of the mix, we’ve got to move to a point where we can offer mass-market products with sustainable credentials.

“I wouldn’t want Gordon Brown’s job”Getting more than half a step ahead of the customer makes you very unpopular: we know they won’t come with us; they’ll go to one of our competitors. The job of government is to get one or two steps ahead of its ‘customers’, the electorate, to change the system – and that is tough and unpopular. The government have made some bold steps, nevertheless. We’re very pleased about the Climate Change Act, because that sets some parameters for us, and in business we need a degree of certainty. What we need next is a fixed cost for carbon…

Richard Gillies, Director of Plan A at M&S, was in conversation with Hannah Bullock.