• Events
  • Masters Course
  • Members area
  • Jobs
  • Media Centre
  • Contact UK
  • | USA
Home
  • Home
  • About
  • Our Work
  • Projects
  • Blogs
  • GreenFutures
  • The Lab
  • Forum Network
  • GreenFutures

What we work on

  • Food
  • Energy
  • Finance
  • Other sectors

How we do it

  • Futures & Diagnosis
  • Innovation
  • Scaling up
  • Sustainable Business
Home › Blogs › Show All › Slow boats and fast trains

Filter

  • Show All
  • Forum Blog
  • Jonathon Porritt
  • Weak Signals

Slow boats and fast trains

19th May, 2008 by Anonymous | Add a comment
Tags :

Overland Heaven is now in full swing and the team at Forum is busy looking at the options available for overland travel to five destinations across Europe.

Most travellers are aware that they should be flying less due to air travel’s substantial contribution to climate change, but in practice this is easier said than done. There are very few ‘easy’ alternatives. As we’re finding out, booking air travel is accessible, quick and relatively simple – so why can’t booking a train or a coach to Seville be just as easy? This is what we’re trying to get to the bottom of through Overland Heaven.

We want to find ways to make overland travel productive, enjoyable and easy to book. We’d like to see travelling overland as the preferable choice over flying, harnessing its advantages such as central departures and arrivals, scenic routes, flexibility, lack of queues and security restrictions… the list goes on. Overland Heaven is all about creating ways to make the journey part of the holiday or business trip, not just a means for getting there.

We welcome any thoughts or insights as to why the travel industry isn't already doing more to promote and sell overland holidays. Are there techical or legal barriers that make overland holidays difficult to arrange? Or is it simply a question of supply and demand? Could the industry do more to create a market for overland holidays? Post your thoughts here.

Add your comment »

Comments

Michael (not verified), 30 May 2008 - 16:18
  • reply

or at least the booking part.

Our family are going to Nice this summer. Rather than the easyjet grind I've forced the trains are more fun/reduce our carbon footprint/cost no more argument.

My wife has spent frazzled latenight hours on a laptop trying out evermore permutations and we've come to the conclusion that the pricing structure is being controlled by somebody very warped

After a nightmare booking process, with affordable tickets being released in minutely small quantities exactly three months before you travel. Meaning that you have to buy each part of your ticket seperately.

The London to Paris single leg of the journey is hugely more expensive than a return on the sameday, so obviously we've bought a return and there'll be four empty seats coming back. The single is also three times dearer than Paris to Nice.

Total cost of our rail journey will be twice that of flying. Which is OK as I'm committed (or should be now). But the whole booking process has proved so complicated, it's hard to recommend to friends thinking of trying the train..

Still, cant wait though!

Melissa (not verified), 14 April 2009 - 15:32
  • reply

I totally support this initiative - having overlanded from Delhi to Istanbul a few years ago. I also support people's views that it is time-consuming and costly within Europe.

So what is needed? A cohesive, pan-European booking service for a start (the basic system is there but the investment isn't). Also price incentives.

Europe Rail - who should be the key initiator of a scheme like this - is geared up for students and backpackers who have the time to 'take a number and queue'. Even booking with Eurostar to travel from London to Amsterdam via Bxl is misleading - they end up putting you on a slow train between Bxl and A'dam and it is a lot more expensive than flying. And while travelling by train on the Continent is a pleasure - in the UK it is an experience to forget.

You need to get the European train operators involved. Offer people ideas on how to break up the journey (esp with families). And promote returning to a 'slow life' without the hassle of flying and airports. But booking a train has to be made as easy as booking a flight if you are to create converts...

David (not verified), 29 May 2008 - 05:22
  • reply

Overland Heaven is going to be a hard sell. That is unless you've got lots of time, lots of money and lots of patience. I live in Northern Italy and I'm heading to Reconnections in the Lake District next month. Outbound I'm flying and the train to Treviso combined with Ryan Air cost me EUR 55. The train to Windermere was an additional EUR 23. I decided to return home by overland Heaven, slowly, to give a little extra time to reflect on the course and let it sink in. Apart from it being a real pain to arrange, it literally took hours, it's expensive. EUR 215 all combined, if I hadn't gone to my local train station to buy the Paris Vicenza bit 3 months in advance, the price would have been over EUR 300. There's undoubtedly a market for a travel agent to simplify the process but they'll need to work out a way to cut out cost rather than add it.

shane (not verified), 19 May 2008 - 16:49
  • reply

what are the co2 benefits of going to Europe overland instead of flying? The Radiative Forcing Index is either included or drop depending on which report you refer to (e.g. the penultimate IPPC report) and basic co2 conversions (e.g. DEFRA) seem to side towards flying.

I'm a dedicated environmentalist and don't mean to be negative. I'm just a little confused.
Shane

Rupert Fausset, Forum for the Future (not verified), 22 May 2008 - 14:31
  • reply

Hi Shane

Even without a Radiative Forcing factor, which is often estimated to at least double the climate impact of flying, overland travel is almost always lower carbon. You mention DEFRA figures - these put rail at 60gCO2/passenger km, which is less than half that of short haul flights (130g CO2 alone).
Even with indirect routings our Overland Heaven project finds that switching to trains - or even coaches - normally saves at least half the carbon. And aircraft can also only use fossil fuels, while trains can use low carbon electricity which may bring their emissions down much further.
Still, there are even worse ways to travel - one person in a 4x4 could be responsible for more than 350g/km!

Add your comment

The content of this field is kept private and will not be shown publicly.
CAPTCHA
This question is for testing whether you are a human visitor and to prevent automated spam submissions. Case insensitive.
Image CAPTCHA
Enter the characters shown in the image.

Our Partners

Contact

  • Forum in the UK
  • Forum in the USA

Keep in touch

  • Join us on Facebook
  • Follow us on Twitter
  • See us on LinkedIn
  • Forum pics on Flickr
  • Forum on YouTube

 Sign up to our newsletter

About Us

  • Meet the team
  • Our history
  • Our achievements
  • Our governance
  • Who do we work with?
  • Annual reports

Forum Network

  • Work with us
  • Members area

Our Work

  • What we work on
    • Food
    • Energy
    • Finance
    • Other sectors
  • How we do it
    • Futures & Diagnosis
    • Innovation
    • Scaling up
    • Sustainable Business

Projects

  • Show all
  • Food
  • Energy
  • Finance
  • Other Sectors
  • Futures & Diagnosis
  • Innovation
  • Sustainable Business
  • Scaling Up

Blogs

  • Show All
  • Forum Blog
  • Jonathon Porritt
  • Weak Signals

© 2011 Forum for the Future | Terms of Use | Accessibility | Privacy Policy | Site Map | Login | Logout

Site built by : New Digital Partnership

The Forum for the Future is a registered charity and a company limited by guarantee, registered in England and Wales. Registered office: Overseas House, 19-23 Ironmonger Row, London, EC1V 3QN, UK. Registered charity no. 1040519. Company no. 2959712. VAT registration no. 677 7475 70